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Church of England and Kingston Council to bid for new school

6:20am Monday 8th March 2010


The Church of England (CofE) and Kingston Council are emerging as the main contenders to run the new north Kingston secondary school, after parents who waged a decade-long campaign appeared to rule themselves out.

A consultation on proposals for the site of the North Kingston Centre ended on Friday, and the council is expected to issue a formal competition notice on April 1, allowing organisations to submit bids to run the school.

Kingston has 10 CofE primary schools but no secondary schools, and the diocese of Southwark said it was considering applying to run the new school after seeing the terms of the competition.

John Russell, assistant director of the diocesan board of education, said: “We would say this is a matter of choice and diversity. It is a opportunity for parents who would wish to use our over-subscribed primary schools to see an ethos-led Church of England education from five to 18.

“We traditionally offer a foundation and open place model and are not rigid about how many are open places and how many are foundation.”

Parents who campaigned for the council to recognise the need for a new school said they were unlikely to follow the example of parents who set up and run Elmgreen School in West Norwood.

Kingston parent Karenza McCarthy said: “I think at the moment for the group of parents who initiated the campaign it is more a case of trying to get it through.

“In terms of who will be running it I don’t have any thoughts. The Church of England seems to be the most likely contender right now.

“It is far from ideal but it would be better than nothing. I would still take it over no school, but I would prefer a community school.”

The council is legally obliged to hold an open competition for potential bidders, and council sources said it was likely to apply itself. The independent school adjudicator would then decide in November who would provide the school.

The Christian Peoples Alliance (CPA), which hopes to run candidates across the borough in May’s local elections, pledged to make the provider of the school an election issue.

CPA candidate David Campanale said: “We have got many [CoE] primary schools that are very successful and open to the whole community. It would be that kind of model I would like to see, with an emphasis on the whole community and not just church goers.”


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Your Say YourStaines

flamineo, Richmond says...
1:18pm Mon 8 Mar 10

Ironic that the diocesan director should see it as a matter of choice, when the parents seem rather put-out at not having one.

Of course, parents who want to indoctrinate their kids into religion always have the choice--to take their offspring to church on Sunday.

But then, as so few do, the only option left for religious brainwashing appears to be 'get them while they're young'. Cynical proselytising at its worst.

One day, when all our kids are separated and ghettoised in Muslim schools, CofE schools, Catholic schools, Protestant schools, Hindu schools and Scientologist schools, we might realise we made a bit of a mistake.

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steadysteve, Worcester Park says...
4:52pm Mon 8 Mar 10

I agree, these Christians are shockers, wanting to indoctrinate our kids with the 10 commandments, love your neighbour, give to the poor and needy. No, much better to let them do their own thing, under age sex, drink and drugs. Religion is so so irrelevant!

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flamineo, Richmond says...
5:22pm Mon 8 Mar 10

That's right. Christians never do under-age sex. Oops, forgot about the Catholic priests there didn't I?

(Yes, those Christians really know how to behave themselves.)

BTW, of the two commandments you've listed, the second one isn't in the official list.

But I take your point, without those, we'd all be going around killing, committing adultery, lying, worshipping false idols, dishonouring our parents, stealing, and (god forbid!) doing things on Sundays.

Not to mention, going, 'Oh, God!' when you stub your foot on the door.

Because we all need to believe we're being watched by an omnipotent god to be nice, don't we?

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steadysteve, Worcester Park says...
6:15pm Mon 8 Mar 10

Wow, you really have it for religion, dont you? Of course Christians do bad things as well as non- Christians. The point I was making was that at least Christianity is trying to teach kids to have a moral compass, based on the teachings in the bible. There has to be some reason why faith schools are so popular.
By the way, I know the second one isnt a commandment but it was... 10 commandments, comma, love your neighbour.

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flamineo, Richmond says...
7:30pm Mon 8 Mar 10

I went to a Catholic school, what can I say? Other than the experience failed to win at least one convert.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of appalling teachings in the bible that I cannot sanction, out of genuine respect for the principles of compassion and humanity. Like stoning people to death, slavery, subordination of women, beating children and gay-bashing (something that appears to be very popular at the moment with Jesus's followers--even though 'He' never sought fit to mention it at all).
I also detest the supposed wisdom of subscribing to a set of rules without questioning them. That blind faith without evidence is somehow a virtue. And the notion that if you don't, you will be punished in Hell for all eternity. Which, of course, can never, ever be disproven, but doesn't sit well with the notion of a loving, forgiving father figure. Not to mention all the religious and sectarian violence that continues to this day to happen in its name. Not to mention the number of times the bible and religious dogma have been proven wrong. Wouldn't you begin to mistrust a friend who kept telling you things that, apart from being bloodthirsty, were also untrue? I certainly wouldn't let him teach my kids.
So, yeah, as far as I can see, as a moral compass, religion sucks. It would be better to teach genuine altruism.
PS: I quite like the part about not judging people--I just wish Jesus's fanclub paid a bit more attention to it. ;o)

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steadysteve, Worcester Park says...
12:39pm Tue 9 Mar 10

The Church of England does teach and practise genuine altruism. Have you never heard of Christian Aid? Volunteers from churhes collect money in their parishes for the poorest people in the world. Children in church schools organise events to also raise funds. Then there are the local charities which benefit, such as Kingston Action for the Homeless. Last month there was a sponsored sleepout, which raised thousands of pounds for that charity.
With regards to stonings, you are a few centuries out of date, the church also doesn't burn witches anymore.

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flamineo, Richmond says...
1:17pm Tue 9 Mar 10

Ah, so certain parts of your religion are (by your own admission) irrelevent, then? Interesting...
Just pick the bits you like and leave the rest.
As for religious charities, you'll find they have higher overheads than secular ones and divert more money into non-charitable ends such as prosyltisation and church costs. Also, proportionally more money is lost (and stolen) from the collection plate than is lost from the accounts of a secular (non-religious) charity. In addition to all of this, atheists who work in secular charities do so for the sake of doing good, without the added motivation of suspecting it gets them into heaven. It's only genuine altuism when you're good for goodness' sake.

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steadysteve, Worcester Park says...
1:59pm Tue 9 Mar 10

Your just making this up as you go along.How do you know if religiious charities have higher overheads than secular ones? I would be very surprised as the big secular charities like British Heart Foundation, Save the Children, Barnados have massive overheads, well over a half of their turnover. How have you got any idea about how much money goes missing ( if any) from collection plates? How do you know that monies dont get stolen by collectors of secular charities?
As for impugning the motives of church people, who raise money for the poor and needy, that is just insulting. You seem to have warped ideas about the church and it's beliefs.By the way, no one thinks that they will be going to heaven by being good.
Anyway I've had enough of this argument. I'm off to a good stoning, haven't been to one for ages.

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flamineo, Richmond says...
2:38pm Tue 9 Mar 10

http://www.vexen.co.
uk/religion/charity.
html

This is my source. Yes, it's perhaps intellectually lazy, but my goodness it's got you going, hasn't it?
Maybe it's not me with the warped idea of religion, but actually you not knowing very much about it. (But still subscribing to it.) Try actually reading the Bible and telling me it's a Good Book!
Happy stoning.

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Angela M, Wimbledon says...
3:34pm Tue 9 Mar 10

I went to a Christian school. It didn't make much difference to my life.

Sometimes ANY school is better than none, but they really shouldn't be divided by religion.

In response to flamineo and steadysteve: Some 'Christian' charities seem to work on the basis that as long as you hand out aid packages, it's okay to persuade the recipients to accept Jesus as their saviour.

Also, I've read the bible. It's all a bit worrying to be honest. Especially the bit where God basically says "prove you love me by murdering your child... haha, only joking". Some passages suggest that women are unclean and should be locked away for a quarter of the month.

Religion should not be forced on children, especially not in schools.

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steadysteve, Worcester Park says...
5:00pm Tue 9 Mar 10

Flamenco, I dont think it's me getting wound up but you.

I have sent my son to a faith school, which is many times oversubscribed. I prefer him to learn about christianity rather than be indocrinated with the social engineering culture of the secular state.

Angela, you are right, any school is better than no school and there are good ones who do not subscribe to a faith. However, it can't be a co-incidence that so many of the best performing non selective schools are Cof E are RC.

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flamineo, Richmond says...
11:33pm Tue 9 Mar 10

I'd prefer integrated, secular education to an apartheid system whereby kids are segregated according to their parents' religious ideologies. That's one social experiment doomed to end badly, like it did in Northern Ireland.

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steadysteve, Worcester Park says...
2:09pm Wed 10 Mar 10

You can have both, there are plenty of schools in Kingston for people who don' t want a secular education for their children. There are others who would prefer a school with a christian ethos. Who are you to deny these people their right to educate their children the way they want to? Your argument about Northern Ireland is totally irrelevant, there haven' t been any problems between Catholics and Protestants in England for centuries.

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flamineo, Richmond says...
2:29pm Wed 10 Mar 10

Religious schools are, by necessity, open to a select few, with openly discriminatory admissions criteria and religious quotas. What other publicly funded services (paid for by everyone, religious and non-religious) are available only to people who happen to believe in 'God X'?
If you want religious schools, at least have the decency to pay for them yourselves.
And, before you start, secular schools do not promote any ideology, political or religious; they are open to people of all faiths, promoting no single religion above any of the others (i.e. fair, objective and balanced).
And, in reference to your last point: that may be the case, but sectarianism doesn't only happen in the case of Protestants and Catholics, does it? Why foster social divides at all? We wouldn't segregate white kids from black; what makes religion so different. As recent history shows, religion seems to be an even more dangerous barrier.
And, as I said before, if parents want to 'educate' (haha!) their kids in religion, then they are free to take them to their local mosque/temple/church
/synagogue, in their own time, at their own expense.
If it really matters that much to them, that is.

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flamineo, Richmond says...
2:58pm Wed 10 Mar 10

I wonder how you'd feel if you discovered that your son's 'faith school' was teaching 7-day creationism as fact, and that evolution is 'just a theory'.
Even though it sounds ridiculous, it's already happening in some of Labour's lauded faith academies. And your blind support of them is helping the nonsense continue.
They all say, 'but we're acting in accordance with the school's religious ethos' too.
Where do you draw the line? When they start reasserting their old belief the sun spins round the earth?
Or Muslims teaching from Arabic textbooks that describe Jews as pigs and Christians as monkeys. Also ridiculous. Also found to be happening recently in the UK.
It's madness, and I despair for our future generations.

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steadysteve, Worcester Park says...
11:36am Thu 11 Mar 10

Have you been to a faith school in Kingston recently? If you had you would find that the children are taught to value all people, irrespective of their beliefs. Our church fosters inter-faith groups, visiting centres of worship from other religions, such as Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism etc. When you meet people of other faiths, you realise that we have more in common with each other than that which divides us. Just because human beings have different beliefs, it doesn't mean that they hate each other. The problem is that the media always highlight extremism amongst a tiny number of religious people as confrontation and violence always sells newspapers, makes good TV.
I dont despair about the continuation of religion, on the whole I believe it is benefecial in countering the malign influence of dreary materialism and the celebrity culture in our society.

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juicetime, new malden says...
2:21pm Mon 15 Mar 10

There are currently 10 state secondary schools in Kingston. Two of which are exclusive on the grounds of academic assessment at age 10 or 11. Children develop at different rates and this reflects achievement on a particular scale at a particular moment in time. Many if not most children attending these two schools are from outside Kingston. These are nationally recognised as excellent schools yet do not serve the borough which funds them. Equally there are two RC secondary schools which operate on a selective basis, this time using religious activity by parents as the standard by which the children are measured. Again these are massively popular oversubscribed schools, and many children come from other boroughs. They must be doing something right to have this impressive reputation(?) This leave the remaining 60% of school places at non-selective schools. The CPA is correct that there are many CofE primary schools but no secondary school in the borough and has identified what it perceives as a need. I have two children at a CofE primary although I am not CofE and ruled out the Catholic options (at primary and Secondary level) as unattainable - although I preferred the moral stance and ethos despite keen reservations theologically. I attended an RC secondary school and had a bit of a culture shock not coming from an RC background and still disagree with many aspects of theology. However, most of the actual (rather than nominal) Catholics, and other Christians, are genuine, moral, kind, helpful people and provide strong role models. I would support an application for a non-denominational Christian school which is inclusive in its admission criteria. (Unlike the exclusivity seen in the RC schools). Ultimately, parents decide on the best of the available options, just as I have just chosen a state secondary school over the RC or grammar options on the basis that it was almost the only realistic option! A Christian secondary school would be another option for parents to consider. The surest way to decide democratically would be to survey all the residents in the borough for their views.

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